Category: Uncategorized

Three Voices in the AI Debate

The debate I am referring to here is not the one about how dangerous AI might be. Rather, I am interested here in the question of whether AI “thinks”–which leads in some instances to the further question of whether it is conscious.

I am not going to try to weigh in on these issues myself in this post. Instead, I am just pointing you toward three recent interventions in those issues that I found illuminating.

First, a two part discussion (long, but very careful and clear) of whether AI “thinks and understands” from Andy Masley. He also promises a third part (which I am eagerly awaiting) to this series in which he will get into the nitty gritty of how AI (as currently constructed) actually works. Here’s the link to the first two parts (at the end of part one you get the link to take you on to part two). https://open.substack.com/pub/andymasley/p/why-i-believe-current-ai-models-can?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web

Second, the humanist argument against AI as offered by Timothy Burke. Note how Burke combines an argument (that thinking depends on embodiment) and then segues into condemnation of what AI does to human relationships. So we get both skepticism about AI thinking and a jeremiad against its ill effects (since it is still doing something even if it isn’t thinking.)

I am giving you the link to Burke’s piece here along with about 3/4s of his post. (Apologies for the bad formatting which this tech idiot could not fix. Use the link for a more reader-friendly experience.

https://timothyburke.substack.com/p/academia-how-thought-happens

  Academia: How Thought Happens Friday’s Child Is Not Someone Else’s Inefficiency
Timothy Burke Oct 9    

I’ve thought about thinking a lot in this last year. And more than ever, I’m sure that thinking happens through the small stuff, in the details, in the routine. As I wrote recently in this newsletter, the work I’d like to be free of is work I want everyone to be free of, even AI. It’s work that I don’t think needs to be done at all, by anyone. It’s work that we are doing because it’s become someone’s job to make work for other people as their own “proof of life”, a demonstration of that person’s value to an organization. (This is one of Graeber’s central points in Bullshit Jobs and The Utopia of Rules.) The work that really needs doing is the work that is the predicate of thought. Profundity grows in the soil of the ordinary.

Thinking, whether fast or slow in Daniel Kahneman’s memorable phrasing, is embodied and experiential. It happens in context, it is reactive, it is material. Thinking is an emergent process that requires a constrained topography to produce structures, outcomes, complexities, insights. The Claude Code advertisement and a fair amount of other AI propagandizing conjures up a utopia for brains-in-jars, at last free of the distractions of worldly life. It is an absurd kind of late Cartesianism run amok.

I don’t know whether I would feel worse if the leaders of Big Tech really meant it or they’re just like Richard Daystrom, grasping for a rationale that will get Starfleet to buy what they’re selling. Brains-in-jars is bodies-in-vats, from a movie that I know the Big Tech elite have seen: The Matrix. And it bothers me more than a little that I have to wonder whether some of them looked at endless rows of senseless flesh powering a vast machine and said to themselves, “Yes”.

Because I have been thinking about thinking, I have, like many academic humanists of the generation that became scholars through, with and around poststructuralist and postmodernist theory, been both discomforted and bemused by the uncanny matching between some of the central tenets of that kind of theory and the operations of generative AI.

Emily Eakin’s wonderful new book The Frenchmen toggles between a personal memoir of being enchanted by Theory (as so many of us were in college in the 1980s) and the intertwined personal lives of some of the major French superstars who created Theory. Eakin does a marvelous job of uncovering that the French theorists themselves wanted to know more about the personal lives and feelings of their peers, that in lived experience the author-function was no more dead for them than it was for anyone else.

One of the insights she brings into our present moment is even more important, however. For all that it eventually became common to bash postmodernist and poststructuralist thought as anti-scientific, as patently untrue and purely ideological, it turns out to have been non-trivially correct in a purely empirical sense about one of its deepest tenets. As Eakin ably sums it up, Theory from its structuralist roots onward came to see human beings as trapped in language and textuality, that there was nothing knowably outside of and beyond language. That didn’t mean that a black hole isn’t real or that a gene is just a word, but it meant that the reality of such things was only knowable through and within language, and thus was always subject to the effects of language. We are produced through language and are never outside of it.

Which in many ways describes how generative AI actually does what it does in technical terms. And it offers an explanation of its power: because a global civilization operates at vast scales and through many complex systems that depend upon language and that use language to command, order and act upon human lives that generative AI has the potential to do so much to us, through us and perhaps for us. For me, at least, this unexpected proof of some of the insights of Theory is not a very welcome thing. I’m at least amused that a long-standing and unthoughtful ideological disdain for structuralism and postmodernism has suddenly run so hard into an unexpected reality.

Back when I was more engaged with Theory I understood the point that we can’t think without language, can’t know the real world except through language, but I have always felt as if I think prior to and outside of language. Moreover, cognitive science has in many ways provided a good deal of evidence that thought and consciousness are in many ways pre-linguistic or extra-linguistic. A two-dimensional being thrown up into a three-dimensional space, as per the book Flatland, might not have the language for describing what “up” and “down” are once they return to their two-dimensional world, but they’d still know that there is a third dimension.

That feeling that thought is before and outside of language is suddenly more important for me, and I suspect connects me in new ways to at least some of those who sourly complained of what they saw of Theory’s acceptance of a “post-truth” perspective. I am stubbornly sure that thinking in a mind that is in a brain that is in a body that is in a material world is not just or merely the operations of language, and thus that Claude is not thinking as I do and cannot substitute for my experience of thought, nor for the consequences of my thinking for me and for the world around me. Which is again why I don’t want to be relieved of the burden of small tasks, of the processes of thinking in the routines of everyday life, in order to become the proverbial big-brained mutant so beloved in science fiction and comic-books, just doing deep thinking liberated from meatspace, unshackled from process.

I recently attended an interesting conference about liberal education and AI where I was irritated by one speaker’s enthusiastic embrace of AI. In particular, the speaker said, it let them prepare 25 slides for a presentation to their faculty that they otherwise would not have not have had the time to prepare. Perhaps the point here is not to have something to handle the task for which you have no time but instead to reconsider whether that task is worth anybody’s time. If an administrator doesn’t have to think about the faculty they’re talking to and think about what needs saying to them, then they have nothing to offer that is worth hearing. That’s because a moment like that is not just about what’s in the language of slides or a speech or a written communique.

The speech or training that someone in charge has decided you have to hear that is empty of thought is the speech of liability protection, the speech of covering your ass. It is the speech of hierarchy and power: you have to hear what I have to say, but I don’t have to think about what I say or the thoughts of those who hear it. That’s a problem in any workplace, any social setting, but especially in an academic institution. It runs counter to what is supposed to be happening in classrooms, in scholarship, in the central mission of the institution.

That’s one reason that academic leaders like Santiago Schnell, the provost of Dartmouth University, run into so much criticism when it comes out that they’ve been using AI to write talks they’re giving to audiences on their own campuses and beyond. It’s not just hypocrisy, though that’s part of the problem. While poststructuralists may have been right that we are always already entangled through and within language, it turned out that many of us valued the “author-function” even if we understood it to be a fiction of sorts. Every time a hue and cry goes up among fans and audiences when they come to believe that a writer or creator has used AI, a major part of the reason is that audiences have a parasocial relationship to the creators as they imagine them to be.

To learn that AI is doing the work that you believed was being thought through the mind of another person is to discover you do not have that parasocial relationship. You are not in a mediated relationship to another mind, to the revealed thought of another person turned into words or images. Your sense of relation is to a thing when you took it to be to a person, which is an interesting inversion of Marx’s understanding of commodity fetishism, whereby things accumulate meanings in the process of their social character being obscured. Here the author-function doesn’t just lose meanings that audiences valued, it becomes a source of horror, the crawling sense that behind what you took to be a human face is an alien doppleganger, a mere tool, a soul that’s been snatched.

When you find out that Schnell’s words are just the product of an AI, you find out that for Schnell you are an inconvenient friction in his day, a gap in his efficiency. You are not a member of his community or a fellow professional. The parasocial relation we have to authors, and the thought of authors, is built around being cared for and cared about, about being deemed worthy of being written to, communicated with. That might be a fiction, but it is a fiction that has mattered to many of us as readers, as citizens, as workers. Here, unfortunately, we discover that objecting to something that we see as the consequence of generative AI is not in fact a result of generative AI as such, any more than the table described by Marx is “evolving out of its wooden brain grotesque ideas”. We discover in fact the materialized reality of the thought of people who let generative AI write and speak for them, that we in fact are just something to speak at, not with, that speech is just encoding a relation between a subject and their muted objects.

The tool used by a subject with the license to use it makes any audience into things, deliverables, ordered and managed properly. That user does not get back their mornings to think more deeply, they are relieved of the need to think at all. Which is why the rest of us need to keep struggling through the dense ordeal of the small materialities of everyday life and the everyday routines of labor. The headwaters of thought are in that ordeal, and from them flow human relationships, both real and aspired towards, both the relations we imagine we want and those we hope to overcome. A little help here and there with tasks that are more difficult than they need to be in the infrastructures of the previous world is fine, but the “greater things” we want, the deeper thoughts we crave, will be found only in our bodies, our minds, and our language.

No tool can tell us what matters, and the use of some tools in some circumstances tells us one unmistakeable thing only, which is that the user of the tool believes that we the reader, the listener, the audience do not in fact matter. I don’t take kindly to being told that, and neither should you.

Finally, a clever rendering of the various statements that crop up repeatedly from those who deny that AI thinks or ever could think. A useful overview of the debate, along with a reminder that an assertion is not an argument.

From:Henry Shevlin from Polytropolis <polytropolis@substack.com> The link will get you to the full post, including the graphic of the Bingo card

Bad AI Consciousness Takes Bingo

Duty calls: shaming 24 bad arguments against AI consciousness
Henry Shevlin Oct 10  

NB: this post is currently a bit rough, because I’m writing it at 30,000 feet and I’m trying to catch the eye of the flight attendant to get another bag of the cream cheese and chive pretzels. Expect a finessed version of this some point in the next few days with more hyperlinks and fewer enthymemes.

To my great surprise, the AI consciousness debate is getting HOT right now. You have to understand how strange this is for me. I’ve been working on consciousness for most of my adult life, and AI consciousness for over a decade. For most of that time, AI consciousness was a respectable but fairly kooky debate in which most of the common examples came from science fiction. But now it’s everywhere! Newspapers, TV, even papal encyclicals. Which of my niche interests is next? Should I expect congressional hearings on Baldur’s Gate 3 Honour Mode strategies?

As fun as this has been, it’s also given rise to a positive cavalcade of terrible takes, including from some people I otherwise think of as smart and thoughtful, which has led to me dropping some tweets that, if not quite acerbic, could only be described as uncharacteristically arch.

To be clear, I don’t think that I have all the answers here, or even most of them. There are plenty of people on all sides of the debate I respect, and while I skew towards “moderate liberalism” (AI consciousness is possible, current models are probably not conscious, but we shouldn’t be too complacent about that), I have big error bars in all directions.

But if people are going to weigh in on these issues – as I absolutely think they can and should – they should at least do some basic homework or show a little bit of epistemic humility, and ideally both, because right now I’m experiencing physical pain multiple times a day scrolling Twitter from seeing hot takes that are unreflective, uninformed, and often very crude (in the full sense of that term).With that in mind, I decided to put on the yoke of necessity and do something about it. Here, inspired by Rob Bensinger’s sublime Bad Alignment Takes Bingo, is the Bad AI Consciousness Takes bingo (I won’t name names, but several Local Area Posters have already won).

I would stress that this list is far from exhaustive, and although it focuses on the anti-AI consciousness side here, there are bad arguments for AI consciousness too (eg, the direct inference from intelligence to consciousness, or accepting multiple realisability as a datum without question).

The main difference is that almost everyone on the pro- side I’ve seen so far is saying things like “this is a really important issue and we should take it seriously”, whereas a disproportionate number of people on the anti-side (including some big names and big accounts) are adamant the topic is dumb and stupid and their opponents are obviously wrong. However, should the pro-side start engaging in similar epistemic misbehaviour, rest assured I have another bingo card in me.

Finally, I’d also really emphasise that many of the lines below could be absolutely fine as conclusions of a wider argument or theory. For example, there are some reasonable arguments connecting life and consciousness; I’m not convinced by them, but I have great respect for some of their advocates. The problem is when people assert those conclusions as argument-terminating assumptions.Anyway, here’s the bingo and the breakdown, have fun and don’t take it too seriously.

1. Nothing but…Master rebuttal. Everything can be described in lots of ways, without excluding other ways. Humans are clouds of atoms, biochemical complexes, social primates, and doctors, lawyers, and parents, and all of those are mutually compatible.

“It’s just programmed by humans.” LLMs are not programmed in the sense relevant here; it’s more instructive to say they’re grown. Engineers choose the data, architecture and training objectives, but the ultimate features of the model emerge in complex and often unexpected ways (cf Lovelace’s objection in Turing 1950). If being shaped by an outside process ruled out consciousness, natural selection and your parents would have some explaining to do.

“It’s just matrix multiplication.” And you’re just sodium and potassium ions traversing membranes. Every interesting physical system is “just” something at implementational levels of description (see Marr 1982). The question is what other capacities emerge from these lower level traits. (Also, it’s not even technically correct; LLMs have non-linear algorithmic components too).

“It’s just predicting the next word.” Next-word prediction is the training objective for base models, but that doesn’t tell you HOW the system is achieving the training objective. Prediction is also a deep cognitive capability; one of the leading theories of human cognition characterises us as predictive engines. Oh, and it’s also untrue — post-training adds other objectives, and LLMs have been found planning rhymes a line ahead, not just “one word at a time”.

“It’s just copying human behaviour.” LLMs are anthropomimetic, to be sure — they resemble us in terms of behaviour. But that doesn’t mean their behaviour doesn’t have some of the same underlying mechanisms; an understudy may learn by copying a dancer’s steps, but at the end she’s really dancing. Whether the mechanisms are the same is an open question, and “it’s copying” restates it without answering it.

“It’s just playing a character.” This is a more interesting objection, as LLMs do seem to have personas. But it’s not clear whether these are more like an actor playing a role or a human switching between social personas in different settings. Even if it’s the former, actors are conscious. And recent interpretability work treats the network as an author simulating the Assistant rather than being it, which means the thing that might feel and the thing that acts needn’t be the same. The author could be the moral patient and the character the moral agent.

2. Missing ingredients
Master rebuttal. No-one knows what consciousness is or what it requires, and people have suggested a wide array of ingredients over the years. All of these takes propose something LLMs lack and assume consciousness needs it. Some of those assumptions may turn out right, but as slogans they’re just presupposing the theory they need to argue for.

“It’s not alive.” Bacteria and fungi are alive and almost certainly not conscious, so life is at best a necessary condition. There are some serious theories linking consciousness more or less closely to life through processes like metabolism, homeostasis or self-maintenance, and they deserve engagement. But you need to make the effort to actually embed your claim in these frameworks!

“It doesn’t have a body.” Our bodies do very little while we’re dreaming, yet we still have rich conscious experiences. People with locked-in syndrome have almost no bodily agency but full conscious lives. Embodiment theories are again real contenders, but you need to argue for the claim that consciousness requires embodiment rather than assuming it (we also have various forms of embodied LLM already, of course).

“It doesn’t have feelings.” This is the precise point at issue. Just because you say it loudly and/or angrily doesn’t make it true. See also proof by assertion.

“It doesn’t have free will.” Plenty of philosophers and neuroscientists think humans lack free will (Robert Sapolsky had a recent popular book about it). They vary on what this means for things like responsibility, but none of them concludes it means we’re unconscious. Consciousness and free will are different properties. 

“It’s frozen until you prompt it.” Consumer LLMs remain passive until prompted because of specific design choices, but there are lots of ways of giving LLMs the ability to run continuously and autonomously without user input (see eg OpenClaw). More broadly, while this may be relevant for the temporal structure of consciousness, you need an argument if you think only certain temporal structures create consciousness.

“A simulation of a hurricane doesn’t get anyone wet.” But a simulation of a calculator does arithmetic, and digital money has value. Some properties survive simulation and some don’t. If functionalism is true, consciousness is more like money, defined by its causal role. You may disagree — but again, you have to give an argument rather than just restating your position.
3. False analogies
Master rebuttal. Analogies between two things only work if they share relevant features. This is why people laugh at the famous “You wouldn’t steal a car…” advert against piracy, because there are a number of important differences between conducting a carjacking vs a teenager downloading Nothing_Else_Matters(2).ogg. Many of these arguments are similarly poor analogies.

“Do you think your iPhone is conscious?” Panpsychists and pancomputationalists actually do, but setting them aside, most people don’t. But most people also don’t think sea sponges or bacteria are conscious. Clearly there are other factors besides “is it biological or artificial” that are relevant here, most obviously complexity (The Microsoft Word variant is worse, since a document is a static record and nothing in it computes anything.)

“It’s like thinking there’s a tiny band inside the radio.” Radios work because bands make music in a studio and it gets broadcast and radios pick it up. LLMs have no studio equivalent. Their outputs are produced by the computation happening inside the system, so if anything the model is the band. (Whether the band feels anything is the question.)

“It can’t even count the r’s in strawberry.” This is years out of date, so immediately indicates a familiarity issue. There’s also a straightforward reason LLMs struggled with this, namely that they read text in chunks called tokens rather than letters. More to the point, capability and consciousness come apart. Toddlers and cats can’t count the r’s in strawberry either.

4. Evidence games
Master rebuttal. These moves all involve setting an implausibly high evidential threshold to attributions of consciousness (that would also exclude animals, infants, or other people) or otherwise shutting down the discussion with vague epistemological scrambling.

“We don’t even know what consciousness is.” True! It’s the hardest problem in science. But surely that should be a reason for open-mindedness and epistemic humility! We still don’t know which animals are conscious. And as result it seems at least conceivably that we might build consciousness without knowing it. Of course, it: fine to use this line if you’d like to remain agnostic, but you can’t use it to license a firm verdict.

“There’s no evidence it’s conscious.” It depends on what you mean by evidence. Direct evidence, no, but you have no direct evidence that anyone but you is conscious. Instead we rely on indirect cues — other people are made like me and act like me, so they’re mostly in. Animals are made like me but they don’t act much like me. LLMs are in a weird zone where their substrate and parts of their psychological structure are nothing like us, but a lot amount of their behaviour is startling similar. This makes the evidence mixed, and mixed evidence is still evidence. The 2023 indicators report is still the gold standard here, and while it found no current system meeting the indicators, it also suggested there were no obvious technical barrier to future ones.

“It only says that because it was trained to.” In most cases, no. Models are trained for personalities and dispositions (such as being honest, helpful, and harmless) not canned answers. However, there are some exceptions for sensitive topics, including consciousness; whereas base models will happily claim to be conscious, most consumer LLMs are specifically trained to deny or hedge the issue.

“No possible output could convince me.” Argument from incredulity, do not pass go, do not collect epistemic credit. If nothing could convince you, why are you even taking part in a discussion? And your own incredulity has no epistemic value here. Some people find it impossible to believe god exists. Some people find it impossible to believe god doesn’t. And plenty of people find it easy to imagine that LLMs are conscious (notably the godfather of deep learning himself). 

“I work in ML. Trust me, there’s nothing there.” The tech world itself is deeply divided on this. It’s like saying “trust me, I’m an American, George W Bush was a great president.” Additionally, technical ML knowledge is only so relevant to these debates; knowing how to train a model doesn’t tell you how its features map on to cognition and representation (that’s mechinterp), and even that doesn’t settle how they map onto rich psychological capacities like consciousness.

5. Not about minds at all
Master rebuttal. This last set of takes isn’t object-level arguments at all, but claims about motives, risks or the mental health of the people asking. Many of them are straightforwardly Bulverism, and tip over the line from bad arguments to antisocial behaviour. Either way, none of them bear on whether the system is conscious.

“It’s just anthropomorphism.” Anthropomorphism might explain why people might hold a belief, but it doesn’t show the belief is false. And there are strong anthropocentric tendencies that cut the other way, leading us to ignore potential evidence for mentality when it comes in exotic forms, especially when it would challenge our sense of our specialness (the animal cognition world has been dealing with this for centuries).

“It’s just hype.” The supposed incentive points both ways at once. Critics say labs talk up consciousness to sell products, and also that they will use it to dodge liability. But labs are wildly divided on this. Senior Microsoft figures have campaigned aggressively against even taking the AI consciousness question seriously, so “the companies all want this” isn’t even descriptively right. The question also long predates modern tech companies, and has been a favourite topic of philosophers for centuries (in the form of automata rather than AI, but same idea).

“It’s a dangerous distraction.” Does discussing AI consciousness really distract us from other issues? We do not, in fact, have a norm that we should only discuss the most important thing in the world at any one time (at least that’s my impression, unless Taylor and Travis have a more world-historical role than I realised). I would also suggest that for alignment purposes, at least, AI consciousness might be more relevant than some think, with multiple papers now suggesting unanticipated negative effects associated with suppressing consciousness attributions.

“So switching off my laptop is murder now?” This is like saying ‘If pigs were conscious, factory farming would be a moral catastrophe, so pigs aren’t conscious.’ That’s obviously silly, because inconvenient consequences don’t make a claim false. It’s also not clear that the murder analogy holds; there are big complex questions about where LLM identity begins and ends (is my ChatGPT the same individual across context windows?), and also questions about model details — a paused model with weights intact is quite different from a dead human.

“That’s AI psychosis.” There are various cases of vulnerable users whose delusions emerge in conversation with chatbots, though whether there’s a causal link is hotly debated (compare the way hearing secret messages from the TV has been a common delusion in schizophrenia for decades). But applying the term to researchers who treat the question as open is contentless name-calling with a clinical label.

 Free squareThe Chinese Room. Look, Searle isn’t my favourite philosopher, but The Chinese Room is a real argument and I’ve taught it in grad and undergrad classes many times. But it deserves a special place on this list because it’s so often used as a debate-terminating cliché by people who read Minds, Brains, and Programs once back in the day and have decided they never need to read anything ever again. Shouting “Chinese Room!” doesn’t settle anything. It was controversial even at the time, has multiple replies considered by Searle and others (something like the “systems reply” seems obviously correct to me), and ultimately, it’s a vibes-based argument about a scientific issue — “wouldn’t it be SUPER WEIRD if a system like this was conscious?” For these reasons and more, in my subjective view it has not aged well, and notably none of the major contemporary scientific sceptics of AI consciousness lean on it. That said, this square is reserved for those who throw it out there and expect it to settle an argument by itself.
Honourable mentions

“It’s not a real person” (begging the question, personhood undefined)
“It’s just a stochastic parrot” (variant of the copying line)
“It’s just a tool” (we mostly use it as one, sure; but who says tools can’t be conscious?)
“Machines don’t have souls” (the most honest one, since it states the real premise)
“Remember Blake Lemoine?” and its sequel, “The Claude Delusion” (see psychosis entry)
“This is just Effective Altruist cult stuff” (more ad hominems, and besides, I’m only EA adjacent)
“Which one’s conscious, the weights or the chat?” (interesting and complex question, but the question of whether the consciousness is there is orthogonal to where consciousness would live) 
“It doesn’t have pain receptors” (you might be able to simulate pain, but more to the point, pain is only one type of consciousness)
“It forgets you as soon as the chat ends” (so do some humans, perhaps most famously Clive Wearing, but they’re still conscious)
“Penrose and Gödel proved it” (is the hope that by combining consciousness, quantum mechanics, and Gödel together we’ll create a mystery and confusion singularity that will solve everything?) “Just read the researchers” (links one paper they had ChatGPT explain to them)
Okay, I got my pretzels, and they have Disclosure Day on the in-flight entertainment, so I’m cutting it here for now. Good luck, no cheating,

Book Talk Next Wednesday Evening

I will be speaking (for about 30 minutes, followed by q&a) in a series sponsored by the National Humanities Center next Wednesday evening, February 17th, from 7 to 8 PM (EST).

Not really a book talk, more a general set of remarks oriented to the theme of “conflict and resolution.”

The talk will also be available for viewing after the event–and I will post that link when it is ready.

For now, here’s the link to the live broadcast.

Cognitive Theories of Art

Nick Gaskill and I have been reading some classic works of aesthetic theory, including Nelson Goodman’s 1976 Languages of Art (Hackett Publishers) and Suzanne Langer’s 1942 Philosophy in a New Key (Harvard UP).  Both Goodman and Langer are committed to a cognitive account of art. By cognition is meant our apprehension of the world.  Art, for them, is a mode of apprehension.  But, from there, it gets fuzzy, complicated, and increasingly implausible very quickly.

The stakes are clear—and I am 60% sympathetic with the cause that Langer and Goodman struggle to advance.  Basically, we are on familiar turf: the defensive insistence on art’s value in a world that seems to find its claims on our attention negligible.  Langer quite explicitly accepts the reigning logical positivist accounts of truth, knowledge, and propositional logic of her day.  But then insists that there is another way of knowing that art embodies and that logical positivism misses.  “Now, I do not believe that ‘there is a world which is not physical, or not in space-time,’ [quote from Bertrand Russell], but I do believe that in this physical, space-time world of our experience there are things which do not fit the grammatical scheme of expression.  But they are not necessarily blind, inconceivable, mystical affairs; they are simply matters which require to be conceived through some symbolistic schema other that discursive language.  And to demonstrate the possibility of such a non-discursive pattern one needs only to review the logical requirements for any symbolic structure whatever. Language is by no means our only articulate product” (88-89).

Langer is committed to 1) an assertion that we can “conceive” of matters relevant to (derived from) experience in non-discursive forms, and 2) that art deals in such non-discursive forms and 3) thus offers us a way to apprehend things that the discursive misses. Hence art is valuable because it is another way of knowing–and one that provides access to information we cannot gain in any other way. (Trouble is, as I am going to discuss, it is not clear that art, even by her account, is distinctive in that way.)

There are “different types of symbolic mediation” (97).  She offers us two basic types: the discursive and the presentational.  “In the non-discursive mode that speaks directly to sense . . . there is no intrinsic generality.  It is first and foremost a direct presentation of an individual object.  A picture has to be schematized if it is to be capable of various meanings.  In itself it represents just one object—real or imaginary, but still a unique object.  The definition of a triangle fits triangles in general, but a drawing always presents a triangle of some specific kind and size.  We have to abstract from the conveyed meaning in order to conceive triangularity in general.  Without the help of words this generalization, if possible at all, is certainly incommunicable” (96, Langer’s italics).

There is a puzzle here—and I can’t decide if it is a deep one or a trivial one.  Presumably, we have direct sensual experience.  So it seems that leaves us with two alternatives when it comes to Langer’s notion of presentational symbols (and of what art does).  Either 1) art is just another instance of direct sensual perception (the artist just creates a new thing for her audience to perceive) or 2) the audience’s perceptual experience of the art object is a different kind of experience than ordinary perception.  The answer to this puzzle must lie in the word “symbol.”  Are everyday perceptions symbolic—or is it only the perceptions that art offers that are symbolic?

It is clear what is at stake for Langer in arguing for presentational symbolism: the widening of the scope of rationality and cognition beyond the strictures of logical positivism.  “The recognition of presentational symbolism as a normal and prevalent vehicle of meaning widens our conception of rationality far beyond the traditional boundaries, yet never breaks faith with logic in the strictest sense.  Wherever a symbol operates, there is a meaning; and conversely, different classes of experience—say, reason, intuition, appreciation—correspond to different types of symbolic mediation.  No symbol is exempt from the office of logical formulation, of conceptualizing what it conveys; however simple its import, or however great, this import is a meaning, and therefore an element for understanding.  Such reflection invites one to tackle anew, and with entirely different expectations, the whole problem of the limits of reason, the much-disputed life of feeling, and the great controversial topics of fact and truth, knowledge and wisdom, science and art.  It brings within the compass of reason much that has been traditionally relegated to ‘emotion,’ or to that crepuscular depth of mind where ‘intuitions’ are supposed to be born, without any midwifery of symbols, without due process of thought, to fills the gaps in the edifice of discursive, or ‘rational,’ judgment” (97-98, Langer’s italics).

What a tangle!  In the first passage I quoted, art offers us a “direct presentation” of something.  Langer appears to desire an unmediated, immediate realm of apprehension that she calls “presentation”—and which is contrasted to the mediated and abstracted conceptualizations that discourse (with its inevitable reliance on generalizing terms) offers.  But then presentations are also to be understood as “symbols,” which ties them as well to conceptualization (and to logic).  With conceptualization comes “meaning” with its corollary “an element for understanding.”  Presumably, understanding is tied to cognition.  In the second passage quoted, the argument leads to “judgment” as the mental capacity exercised in the encounter with the presentational symbol. 

The very next paragraph (I have not skipped anything here) gives us a better sense of what Langer thinks judgment is/does—and ties to judgment to knowledge.

“The symbolic materials given to our senses, the Gestalten or fundamental perceptual forms which invite us to construe the pandemonium of sheer impressions into a world of things and occasions, belong to the ‘presentational’ order.  They furnish the elementary abstractions in terms of which ordinary sense-experience is understood.  This kind of understanding is directly reflected in the pattern of physical reaction, impulse and instinct.  May not the order of perceptual forms, then, be a possible principle for symbolization, and hence the conception, expression, and apprehension, of impulsive, instinctive, and sentient life?  May not a non-discursive symbolism of light and color, or of tone, be formulative of that life?  And is it not possible that the sort of ‘intuitive’ knowledge which Bergson extols above all rational knowledge because it is supposedly not mediated by any formulating (and hence deforming) symbol is itself perfectly rational, but not to be conceived through language—a product of the presentational symbolism which the mind reads in a flash, and preserves in a disposition or an attitude?” (98, Langer’s emphasis).

Judgment for Langer, apparently, is what makes sense of “the pandemonium of sheer impressions.”  We need to do some basic abstracting, some sorting of our sense impressions into kinds or into analogies with other impressions, to attain any understanding.  I think (relying on this and other passages in her book) that she, in Kantian fashion, builds this abstracting, this “formulization,” into the very act of perception. For example: “Our merest sense-experience is a process of formulation. . . . [T]he world of pure sensation is so complex, so fluid and full, that sheer sensitivity to stimuli would only encounter what William James has called . . . ‘a blooming, buzzing confusion.’ Out of this bedlam our sense-organs must select certain predominant forms, if they are to make report of things and not of mere dissolving sensa. . . . An object is not a datum, but a form constructed by the sensitive and intelligent organ, a form which is at once an experienced individual thing and a symbol for the concept of it, for this sort of thing”(89, Langer’s italics).

Thus, it is not clear that she actually allows for any distinction between “ordinary sense experience” and its symbolization (abstraction).  The two occur simultaneously; the “fundamental perceptual forms” are always already there.  Intuitive knowledge happens in a flash; there is no discernible gap between perception and the act of judgment that gives that perception “form.”  And it symbolization has always already occurred, there is no “direct perception” of the unique object; that object has always been apprehended through the lens of an abstraction that sees it as one of a larger kind (the “sort of thing it is”). 

Nick and I have also been reading Brian Massumi (and I will get to him in posts to come)—and he is committed to the quest for certain forms of immediacy.  Certainly, much art since 1890 has tried to by-pass mediation in an effort for an innocent perception, a perception out from under received cultural forms and meanings and categories.  Langer isn’t quite there; she builds mediation (symbolization) into presentation.  She does so because she believes that “symbols” are “vehicles for the conceptions of objects” (60-61)—and an object that has not been conceptualized is, quite fully and literally, meaningless.  You might say that we have “to know” what we are perceiving.  Otherwise, we are lost in “the pandemonium of sheer impressions.,” William James’ bedlam. A symbol, after all, is not the thing itself.  But perception of the thing itself without the “vehicle” of the symbol cannot register cognitively.  Such pure perception would be the sheer nonsense that is the bugbear of logical positivism. 

In trying, then, to rescue a non-discursive presentational mode from logical positivism’s narrow understanding of reason and knowledge, Langer goes too far.  How so?  Because if she builds symbolization into perception itself, then it is unclear what distinctive role is left for art.  Even if we grant that art (at least the arts apart from literature) are non-discursive and thus an avenue for meanings and understandings not accessible in discursive, propositional modes, there seems to be nothing that distinguishes art from ordinary perception.  What do we do differently in art from the spontaneous symbolization that accompanies apprehending things in the world?

[An aside: Langer uses the terms “meaning,” “understanding,” “judgment,” “reason,” and “knowledge” very loosely—as if they were synonyms.  All of them, quite clearly, belong firmly in the realm of cognition on her view.  But I still need to sort out for myself if I think that “to know the meaning of a sentence” is distinct—and how—from “knowing that my car is not running because it ran out of gas.”  In other words, are “meanings” a distinct quality of things as contrasted to “causal explanations” or acquaintance (“I know him”).  We can stand, it seems to me, in multiple different relations to things—relations that ordinary language characterizes as “knowledge” of those things—and “meaning” is only one of those multiple possible relations.  Jumbling them all up under the general rubric of “knowledge” or “reason” is not helpful.  From which it follows (as Langer presumably agrees) that there are also different modes of “cognition” (coming to “know” something)—and art might name one of those modes.  That’s what a cognitive theory of art aims to establish.]

Langer digs the hole she is trying to escape even a bit deeper. Not only does she have to show that art’s presentational symbols do something that ordinary perception does not, but she also insists that we need to have a way to distinguish good art from bad art.  (See 207-208.)  Langer’s solution to this double problem is to extol “perfection of form” (208).  Art is distinguished from ordinary perception by its abstraction away from the sensible (sensuous) particular things.  “’Artistic meaning’ belongs to the sensuous construct as such” (208).  That is, art is sensuous, but in a way that calls our attention to “the construct” not to the thing (or things) the art object offers to perception.  “It exhibits pure form not as an embellishment, but as its very essence. . . . [T]he meaning of art belongs to the sensuous percept itself apart from what it ostensibly represents” (209).

If this is the case, then what is the cognitive content art is delivering?  What does the apprehension of form enable us to know?  What meanings does it convey—or allow us to grasp?  Langer takes music as her primary art form because it is most fully distanced from representation, from “content.”  Langer’s position is that music is “about” feelings, but it is not a representation of feelings.  “If music has any significance, it is semantic, not symptomatic.  Its ‘meaning’ is evidently not that of a stimulus to evoke emotions, nor that of a signal to announce them; if it has an emotional content, it ‘has’ it in the same sense that language ‘has’ its conceptual content—symbolically.  It is not usually derived from affects nor intended for them; but we may say, with certain reservations, that it is about them.  Music is not the cause or the cure of feelings, but their logical expression; though even in this capacity it has special ways of functioning that make it incommensurable with language” (218).

The basic idea is that music abstracts from particular emotions to reveal the fundamental form  (particularly its rhythms, duration, unfolding, and entwined relations among various elements) of an emotion.  Music has “genuine conceptual content” (219).  “[M]usic is not self-expression, but formulation and representation of emotions, moods, mental tensions, and resolutions—a ‘logical picture’ of sentient, responsive life, a source of insight, not a plea for sympathy.  Feelings revealed in music are essentially not ‘the passion, love or longing of such-and-such an individual,’ inviting us to put ourselves in that individual’s place, but are presented directly to our understanding, that we may grasp, realize, comprehend these feelings, without pretending to have them or imputing them to anyone else” (222).  The cognitive pay-off is made clear here. 

And Langer fully understands that it requires what she calls “psychical distance,” a term she borrows from Edward Bullough.  Here is the traditional idea that knowledge requires “reflection,” and a distance between the knower and the thing known.  Immersion is dangerous, messy, inchoate, and over involved.  This commitment to distance (as Bourdieu outlines in Distinction) goes hand-in-hand with the elevation of form over content, and with the disparagement of popular art as offering cheap thrills in place of more subtle contemplative pleasures.

“[T]he hall-mark of every artistic ‘projection’ of experience . . . does not make the emotive contents typical, general, impersonal, or ‘static’; but it makes them conceivable, so that we can envisage and understand them without verbal helps, and without the scaffolding of an occasion wherein they figure (as all self-expression implies an occasion, a cause—true or imaginary—for the subject’s temporary feelings).  A composer not only indicates, but articulates subtle complexes of feeling that language cannot even name, let alone set forth.  He knows the forms of emotion and can handle them, ‘compose’ them” (222).

I am sympathetic to an “articulation” understanding of the arts—and that is why I am attracted to cognitive theories.  We “know” something better after an artist articulates it for us.  That “something” may be contents (feelings, beliefs, commitments, values, intuitions) that were fairly inchoate before our encounter with the clarifying work of art.  And I am happy to say that articulation can come in non-discursive modes when the art is question is music or painting or other varieties that use non-linguistic media.  I can even get on board with saying that such knowledge as the arts import has it uses.  Perhaps it allows us to better grasp our own commitments; perhaps it lets us see meaningful connections or patterns that hadn’t previously occurred to us.  In some cases it might even change our understanding of some thing (here we get to more rhetorical understandings of art, a topic I’d like to consider).

But where I get stuck is Langer’s elevation of form over content (notice how the word “form” gets snuck into the last sentence of the passage I just quoted).  How is making certain emotional experiences “conceivable” a matter of form, not content?  And why does it preclude my being marched through those emotions as part of the experience of the art work?  I am inclined to a more Stanley Fish-type “surprised by sin” approach.  The art work sees me submitting to an emotional process that it also provides me the resources to (eventually) reflect upon.  It is this doubleness that distinguishes art works—and that doubleness has less to do with form than with the “fictional” nature of art.  If there is a “psychical distance,” then that distance is provided by our knowing in some part of ourselves that this experience isn’t “real.”  We have these emotions (you’ll laugh with him, cry with him), but they are “make believe.”  And like the experiment in the lab, which is also “controlled” and distinct from actual life processes, the art work can tell us something about the “real world.”  But I don’t see how that something it tells us is only and purely “formal.” 

It all comes down to what is meant by form.  I think form is simply the way various elements are arranged.  A skillful artist will arrange her materials in a way that maximizes their impact.  The recent  movie version (2019) of Little Women offers an interesting example.  From any straight-forward story-telling point of view (not to mention how the source novel tells its story), the film was overly complex.  Its arrangement of its various incidents jumps around wildly in time and is potentially disorienting.  Any viewer unfamiliar with story would be very confused.  But that was Greta Gerwig’s (the writer and director) salvation.  Her arrangement is parasitic on the assumption that the story was familiar to her audience.  Thus she did not have to prioritize that audience’s ability to follow the plot line—and could achieve a variety of other effects through her formal tricks.  But it seems crazy to me to then claim that those formal tricks are the sole focus of the true art appreciator, or the sole criterion for judging the film’s success or failure.  The formal tricks were clearly adopted in service of various meanings, emotions, values that Gerwig wanted to convey.  The content that she desired to deliver is what gives the formal tricks their point.  Otherwise it is just an empty exercise in cleverness.

Now Langer clearly thinks that knowing “the forms of emotion” (222) has its benefits.  But without a much more specific statement about what those forms are, I am at a loss.  To say, for example, that the emotion of grief has its rhythms and its stages—and that music can gives us a feel for them—is not nothing.  But such a statement (or such a presentation in a work of music) abstracted from the content of grief is close to senseless.  Which, Bourdieu would say, is the point: to get as far away from the sense as possible into a world of pure intellect.  That isn’t exactly where Langer heads.  Instead, she wants to make sure the sensuous is “conceptualized.”  Only then can it become something we can cognize, something that can be invested with meaning, and become an object of knowledge.

I’ll get to Goodman and Massumi is future posts.

Kim Evans Responds

Here’s is Kim’s correction of my mis-understanding of her project.

Dearest John,

Many thanks for the shout out! I’m intrigued by your account of my argument and your response to it—which has sent my head spinning (not in an unpleasant way). Here are a few initial reactions, and since you paint the scene with a useful mix of the personal and the intellectual I’ll respond in kind.

First, you have perfectly captured the gist of our not-wasting-any-time-with-chit-chat encounter: that by changing the original meaning of “noumena” from “that which is thought” to his own “things as they are, independent of observation,” Kant not only altered (detrimentally) the trajectory of thought in the modern era but also created the conditions for our enduring misreading of Plato. Ironically, Plato gets the rap for Kant’s dualism.

However, I did *not* say (as you report) that “we should understand the Forms as the concepts by which we (humans) grasp things.” I’m sorry to be so fastidious on this point, but something I find preoccupying is how confused many people have become about concepts (or what it means to have the use of a concept) and concept formation. The confusion is largely due (thanks for nothing, Kant!) to the belief that concepts are formed in the individual theater of the mind. You are still reading Kant or operating out of a set of assumptions established for you by philosophers in the modern era (after the defining work of Descartes and Locke) when in the second half of your post you object to what you call my idealism or worry about the way that all this talk about concepts “confines humans within the boundaries of our languages.” This Kantian view of concepts (as an activity of mind) simply does not map onto the view we find in Plato’s writing. Plato calls attention to the world of forms in order to help us see how language actually works. And discovering how language actually works, according to good readers of Plato (like Wittgenstein) and good readers of Wittgenstein (like Bernard Harrison), helps us to see how a) the “meaning” of a word or linguistic expression—“whale,” for example—doesn’t come, as it were, from Nature and it doesn’t come from Mind; it comes from the role the world plays in language, and b) the meaning of a word can’t be divorced from the wide array of socially devised and maintained practices in which the speakers of language are engaged.  This should come as an enormous relief to anyone who wishes, as you do, to emphasize the central importance of practices in the formation of concepts. I could also say here that something you presumably like about Wittgenstein is that he both denies the existence of a referential relationship between words and things and at the same time dispels the view that language is self-referential, the meaning of its signs established by nothing more than the history of language. But for goodness’ sake let’s please finally concede that this is in fact the position of the classical realists and their best readers (like C. S. Peirce)—though this will presumably only happen when we get back to reading Plato’s dialogues instead of using him as a foil.

SO, to repeat, I did not say that “we should understand the Forms as the concepts by which we (humans) grasp things.” After all, we’ve never had any problem grasping things! The matter that needs explaining is how we grasp thoughts (or the thoughts our words express, which all together make up what Plato called the noumenal realm) and also how the thought a word expresses is affected by or sedimented out of our undeniable placement in the phenomenal realm or world of empirical objects, forces, etc.

The formulation I prefer (and if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, would like to be remembered by) is this one:

For Plato, the real world is the world of things signified by the signs in our language. 

Or,

The things signified by the signs in our language (“the living whale in his full majesty and significance” in Melville’s signature expression, when the sign is “whale”) are what Plato calls real.

What I like about this formulation is that it gets us away from all the garbled transcendentalism misleadingly associated with Plato but really pushed by philosophers in the modern era (for example all the talk about the “stability” of the forms) and back to the view, which is the view we get from reading Plato’s dialogues, that our concepts are in motion. (They are in motion because they are always being revised and added to, as you say, but this does not make them subjective. For Plato concepts are not private but public.)

Now, there is something else at work here that I think is worth remarking on. In your post you comment on your reading habits (that you only skim the news but prefer to read books, the longer the better) and you reference (with sympathy or shared feeling, I think) my remark that the sound of not reading is what we mostly hear. But then, after introducing my position (as found in my MLA talk, but given full development in my new book, One Foot in the Finite: Melville’s Realism Reclaimed) you go on to spell out a difference you see between your position and mine on the grounds that what I say about concepts has not taken enough account of practices. But good god, man! As the author of a book about, precisely, the relationship between concepts and practices or the materiality of our conceptual lives (through the lens of Melville’s Moby-Dick, the most practice-aware study of concepts in all recorded thought!) I’m puzzled by your account. I can only imagine that you are not reading all of the book in which the view you characterize is laid out. This would be perfectly understandable, given the demands of life. Even the most intelligent and serious of readers learn to make use of reviews, rumors, and what they can glean from titles. (And speaking of reviews, I’ll paste below the first few paragraphs of one of the reviews of One Foot so that you don’t have to take my word for it on the question of my focus on practice.) But I am nevertheless interested in the likelihood of people not reading because not-reading seems to have become the means by which our profession keeps chugging along. Well, to speak more accurately, your profession, since as you point out I am no longer paid by anyone to be a reader of texts or to help other people undertake that work. Payment, as my latest labor of love suggests, is not necessary—though the want of it is profoundly uncomfortable & of course the kids suffer.

In any event I am brought back to something you said at the beginning of your post. I am extremely happy to be characterized by you as “a scholar of rare conviction and a thinker of even rarer originality,” and wouldn’t it be nice to think that this is the reason I am presently unemployed! My feeling is that the truth is more mundane and (to me) more unsettling. My last position, as you know, was Associate Professor of Literature and Philosophy at Yeshiva University, and when I am asked what happened there the best way I have of explaining is with a line cribbed from The Great Gatsby. I say I fell into the hands of careless people. ‘Careless’ is perhaps less damning a mode than many others (like ‘ill-willed’ or ‘frightened by originality’) but I think that when it is the mode taken up by professional readers and critics it can feel almost calculated—an engine of professional life rather than an obstacle to it. Isn’t that what Kant demonstrated, when in his Critique of Pure Reason his “unwarrantable” use of the word “noumena” (to quote Schopenhauer) both launched his own career and buried Plato’s own view under two centuries of misreading?

I’m sure I have made certain missteps, here—but oh, the pressure of a blog to respond quickly! I prefer the slowness of books. And shouldn’t books be read as deliberately as they were written? When did that way of reading end, and what will be the result?

 

Very much love, Kim

Notre Dame Philosophical Reviews

2018.04.28 View this Review Online   View Other NDPR Reviews

  1. L. Evans,One Foot in the Finite: Melville’s Realism Reclaimed, Northwestern University Press, 2018, 210pp., $34.95 (pbk.), ISBN 9780810136120.

Reviewed by Gary Shapiro, University of Richmond

Recently there has been an explosion of Anglophone philosophical interest in Herman Melville. The author of Moby Dick, or the Whale (1851) was neglected until the Melville renaissance that began among literary critics and historians in the 1920s and that has grown steadily since. However, it is only recently that those working in the analytical philosophical vein have turned their attention to the writer. Others writing in English with a more continental orientation have produced several monographs and essay collections in just the last three years or so. These studies were preceded some decades ago by a number of European thinkers, such as Gilles Deleuze, Jacques Ranciére, and Giorgio Agamben. Evans’s book should be of great interest to those seeking a strong interpretation of Melville’s great novel and to those exploring the value of Wittgenstein’s thought for literary analysis.

Evans focuses specifically on Moby Dick. As her title suggests, she is interested in reclaiming Melville’s realism. In a larger sense, she joins in an effort to reclaim American literature for philosophy, a project identified most frequently, but not exclusively, with the work of Stanley Cavell. She advances a Wittgensteinian reading of the novel, claiming that Melville “in effect lays out a solution to the problem that has vexed philosophy since its inception — the problem of how we grasp thought” (118) or (just a bit more modestly) that he dissolves the Cartesian problem of bridging “the ontological chasm between nonspatiotemporal thoughts and spatiotemporally bound thinkers” (164). While Evans devotes about as much time to explaining her version of Wittgenstein’s philosophy of language, knowledge, and reality as to explicating and commenting on Melville’s text, she does offer a number of distinctive readings of the latter inspired by the former analysis. This book offers an original understanding of Melville’s realism and argues that, so understood, the novel is quite coherent, contrary to many critics who regard it as a poorly patched together combination of a realistic whaling narrative and a metaphysical tragedy.

Evans comments acutely on a signature philosophical passage in Moby Dick that compares a whaling vessel hauling along two dead whales, one on each side, and so precariously balancing itself, to a thinker attempting to juggle Locke and Kant (chapter 73). Nominalistic empiricism competes with the transcendental a priori: is our knowledge limited to the things of sense, or do we possess concepts and forms of intuition that invariably structure our experience while rendering the noumenal world inaccessible? The narrator comments on the plight of those who “for ever keep trimming boat” as they compensate for a tilt toward one by hoisting up the other side. Evans endorses the narrator’s exclamation: “Oh, ye foolish! Throw all these thunderheads overboard, and then you will float light and right.” Melville, as read through Evans’s take on Wittgenstein, recognizes that our concepts are embedded in common forms of life, elements of a rich and complex network of habits, customs, practices, and institutions. The “living whale in his full majesty and significance” — a phrase that Evans repeats with increasing resonance — is not to be reduced either to a set of sensible experiences nor to the idea that a single person might form of the cetacean. The whale is the object of those forms of life practiced by whalemen who pursue, catch, slaughter, process, and are sometimes the victim of the leviathan.

Throughout, Evans engages in a running discussion with a number of Wittgenstein’s leading interpreters and commentators. She is particularly partial to Bernard Harrison’s explication of meaning as use and the concept of language games. Evans suggests a continuity which has not always been apparent between the “logical space” of theTractatus and the Investigations‘s focus on use. In clarifying this project, she observes — rightly, I believe — that it is misleading to reduce Wittgenstein’s meaningful “facts” to mere “things,” as the Pears and McGuiness Tractatus translation tends to do. Literary scholars inspired by (say) Cavell’s readings of Emerson and Thoreau should find these analyses, which are bolstered by discussions in the extensive notes, especially helpful. Philosophers who are in the current Wittgenstein loop may find them a bit repetitious, while others less conversant with relatively recent relevant discussions may be grateful for them……